Does Chinese Water Torture count? Dripping water on your forehead is super annoying...

Sure go ahead, just dont get to graphic. The children may hear ( !

Chinese Water Torture is about as Chinese as Chinese Whispers (childrens game for those who don't know) or Chinese Finger Traps. Besides, it is an ineffective torture and pales in comparison to waterboarding.

Aaaaaand here comes ignorance about foreign countries!

Yeah...this thread is not going to end well.

Um, if ya give me enough time I will attempt to go and create the most ignorent remark I can about China, but first I need to contact a few people over there to make sure that I do not inadvertently make a remark that is factual.

According to the Chinese calendar, I was born in the Year of the Snake...

That is what you say, maybe it will go well. And Piznit was just trying to be funny, and people will grow up and post mature stuff.

The most effective form of torture currently is tasers

I disagree, the most effctive form of torture is marrage.

I hope for your sake that your wife doesn't take a sudden interest in your hobby and start reading these forums.

Ok, I think somebodys marrige is not related to china. Plese stay on topic.

Hi Nequa. Thank you for creating a thread which is perhaps a bit more appropriate for me to posting in than the 'America Superpower thread'. I was having a troubling time staying on topic I'll post in here from now on.

Nfeldav made a comment in the American superpower thread that in admist the howling on Tibet on both sides, there's not so much news on what 'the average Tibetan' thinks. I completely agree.

As mentioned, I'm Han, I'm Chinese and I live in Beijing. The difficulty in asking what the 'average Tibetan' thinks is the same as asking what an average American thinks of Hillary Clinton. A lot of differenting ideas and opinions.

Our local media often has programs saying that all Tibetans are really happy with the government and none of us here really completely believe that. So I'm going to offer my personal thoughts. I've been Tibet, I can't claim any Tibetans as a close friend and I frequent a local Tibetan club near my apartment about once a month.

Most of the Tibetans in Beijing I talk to think the modern government is relatively good. They are young, entreprenuerial and filled with dreams of a bright successful sexy future. They don't want to be farmers like the four generations before them. They don't want to eat lentils and goat cheese every day. They like being able to take running water and fresh fruit for granted. They like broadband wireless internet. They want to be the next China Idol or learn salsa and be on our version of Dancing with the Stars. They like big cities, nightclubs, shopping malls and this is what the new government has brought.

There is another much smaller group of Tibetans in Beijing that like the modern government not so much for the glitz and bells, but rather for the opportunity for education. This group believes that Tibet should grow and develop. It needs better infrastructure, social security, health care... running water, flushing seweage etc. And most importantly - it needs more sophisticated leadership. The village elder might be good for arbitrating between two neighbours fighting over a chicken, but Tibet needs better leadership to grow. The current Han government is okay - and they are more or less, better educated than local Tibetans which means they at least can handle economics, macro-planning etc. But ideally, there should be Tibetan political leaders, business leaders, judges. etc. Tibetans need to go to University, return from Harvard, travel the world and come back to Tibet to lead. The present government gives such opportunities, scholarships, international exchange programs etc. - and despite its faults should be credited for such. I have a huge amount of respect for this group - for they have pride in being Tibetan as I do in being Han.

Inside Tibet, there is a young middle upperclass that thinks the modern government is good because of the economic development. Finally, there is a hope and future for the development of the region.

There is an older generation that laments that all this fancy new internet and Mercedes Benz stuff comes with drugs, prostitution and tobacco. Things were better in the good old days. This group also probably feels threatened by a Han dominated government and a whole bunch of Han people arriving. Why suddenly is the language that I've spoken all my life no longer the language of my region? How can I be expected to learn this 'Mandarin' at 65 years old? Universities are places that suck my son away from the family run tea-house. And I put up with this so I can 'check my email'? I don't even own a computer nor do I want one. I can understand how that could be threatening.

And there is a disillusion, disenfranchised, disenchanted lower class that has trouble finding jobs, staying out of jail. This group wants to screw the police, screw authority, screw the government. Free drugs, free sex and free Tibet. As vocal as they are, I don't think they really hate China as such - they hate the position they are in and they find targets on which to vent their frustation. I would imagine the solution is not so much to lock them up, but to improve the position of the lower class. I would suggest that you saw this group a lot on CNN in the past couple of weeks.

Then there is a group I have no experience with at all - the exiles. I don't know enough about this group to meaningfully comment. I also don't know any Tibetan monks or people that claim to follow the Dalai Lama so I can't comment on them.

My thoughts

It's great that you realized your government control media isn't telling you the whole truth. The only thing now is to keep that independent thought and perhaps shape the government to a better one. One that truely serves the people, not high ranking/corrupt government officials.

Better environment protocols for the factories, so less pollution, better healthcare. By cutting out the corruption or increasing the price of factory goods just a tiny bit allows you to put in place better pollution controls.

I just have a problem with the current Chinese government or any "power hungry" government in the world that so paranoid with power and control. Even when lawyers utilized the current Chinese laws to combat land reform tactics that leave the people with meager compenstations are prosecuted or retaliated against.
The government is so paranoid of control they fear and destroy any significant group establishment whether religious, politicial, or human rights. What I'm trying to say is to share that power. Somethings are much more efficiently done, than governments can ever dream of. For example, the blood distribution in America are done by the Red Cross and Carter bloodcare. Both are non-profit, non-government entities that make enough money to pay for it own expenses. For a pint of blood Carter charges the hospital around $91, the publicly funded government hospital buys it and turns around to charge Americans $300.

Basically, a lot of things run a lot more efficient with the business model, the only problem is when the business model DOESN'T INCLUDE ETHICS and MORALITY. People are not human resources to be disgard and replaced with more healthy ones when the fumes and conditions in the factors make them sick.

When Hurricane Katrina occured in Lousianna, where there is a huge community of Vietnamese fishermen, none of them appeared on TV pleading for the slow government help, because with local Vietnamese newspapers, radios broadcast, the churches/temples and volunteers in the surround states step in and help them.

So hopefully, the Chinese People can change and improve their government for the better.
"Those who control the flow of information, controls the freedom."
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - THomas Jefferson.

First, "Chinese water torture", with proper restraint, and sensory deprivation is considered to be an effect form of torture.

Second, the Chinese have the longest recorded (written) history in the world. It encompasses about 1000-2000 years, a majority of which is Civil War. The Chinese were the first to invent the crossbow, and a repeating weapon (Cho Ko Nu). I believe they were also the first to use a type of land mine.

The Chinese also have had two of the most well preserved mummies, of which both had fully flexible limbs, all internal organs intact (brain included), and skin near the same "feel" of living skin.

Does this suffice?